Vasit: We have to fight even the US and UN

Pol Gen Vasit Dejkunjorn, former palace police chief and former Deputy Police Chief, has published an article in Matichon in response to recent comments by the US Ambassador and the United Nations Office of Human Rights on Thailand’s lèse majesté law.

Vasit wrote that he was not really surprised to hear that Kristie Kenney, the US Ambassador to Thailand, and Ravina Shamdasani, spokesperson for the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, had ‘come out to make comments critical of the Thai court in the case of Amphon Tangnoppakul who was sentenced to 20 years in prison for lèse majesté.’

He was not surprised, in the case of Kenney, because he had studied in an American university where he had several American friends.  And as he has known many more Americans, he is aware that a number of Americans know and understand other peoples and countries only superficially, no matter how highly educated they are or how many degrees they have got from universities.

Citing Kenney’s degrees from various universities, Vasit said that he doubted whether those universities’ curricula had provided her with enough understanding about foreign countries including, in particular, Southeast Asian countries, and made her sufficiently aware that ‘the Thais’ feelings toward their King are completely different from those of Americans toward the President of the United States of America.’  

Considering her record of having served only in European and Latin American countries and the Philippines, he assumed that the Ambassador would never have had time to really study and get to know Thailand and the Thai people.

As for Ravina Shamdasani, he said that he could not find her record, except that she is a human rights advocate, ‘seeming quite young and looking Indonesian or Malay.’

‘However, both Kenney and Shamdasani may not know that the Thai King has been enthroned by succession in the dynasty, not by election for a four-year term like the American president,’ he said.

‘More importantly, the King is the institution which unifies the whole Thai nation and guarantees the continuity of the rule which has lasted for over 700 hundred years,’ he said.

He believed that Kenney and Shamdasani did not know much about Thailand’s criminal law, otherwise they would have known that lèse majesté offences were not like offences against ordinary people, but were against national security.

Citing that people are not aware of the fact that ‘all constitutions of the Kingdom of Thailand stipulate that the King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated [and] no person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action,’ he said that they therefore had come out to criticize or reproach the Thai court’s handling and ruling as inconsistent with universal standards on freedom of expression and in breach of international agreements on human rights.

‘This even goes so far as to demand the amendment of the lèse majesté law,’ he said.

‘I want to inform the US Embassy in Thailand and the UN’s Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights that I well understand how humans are entitled to rights, but I also understand that any human has duties as well,’ he said.

He said that, ‘to defame, insult, or disparage those worshipped by other people is the exercise of rights and freedoms beyond the boundaries any person should use and is a dereliction of duty or betrayal by that person.’ 

‘Especially in Thailand where the King is ultimately loved, respected and worshipped by the Thai people, such acts are deemed the ultimate offence which is not forgivable by the Thai people,’ he said.

He took note that Kenney and Shamdasani’s acts took place when insults to the King were rampant on the internet, as if they had never been aware of them or had never been informed by their staff.

‘Or is it their intention to join in the fray?’ Vasit asked.

‘A certain number of ungrateful Thai people are trying to destroy democracy with the King as Head of State. If the US or the UN are of this opinion or support this, they should know that the Thai people who worship and want to protect the King are ready to be their enemy and will fight both the US and the UN,’ he said.

When logic fails, Thais

When logic fails, Thais always have the final fallback line--foreigners cannot understand Thailand. Unfortunately, Vasit even points out the fallacy of his argument. This view is not only shared by the US and the UN, but also by "a certain number of ungrateful Thai people."

By ungrateful people, I wonder if he's referring to those who have been promised reforms by former governments, only to have the funding syphoned off into the pockets of corrupt govt officials. Or could he be referring to those who formerly would accept the generous handouts of 500 baht to sell their ballots to elect corrupt politicians? I suppose it could be those who saw real advances occur under Thaksin, where they finally had an opportunity to purchase some of the luxuries formerly seen only on night time television. Surely he's not referring to the small group of people who are currently controlling the government.

I'm not sure Vasit has correctly identified the group of people who fail to understand Thailand.

The US State Department and

The US State Department and the UN are two in the same - run by Wall Street and London global corporate-financier interests and constitute the current, greatest danger to human freedom worldwide.

The US State Department whom Kenney represents is currently defending a listed terrorist organization in Iraq, Mujahedeen e-Khalq (MEK) so they can be relocated, delisted, armed and sent to conduct terrorist attacks against the Iranian people. Fact.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/12/21/state_department_scrambling_to_move_the_mek_to_a_former_us_military_base

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/exposed-us-troops-guarded-terrorist.html

The US State Department is OPENLY advised by corporate-fascist interests via their funded think-tanks - also a FACT...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/clinton-turns-to-naked-corporate.html

The UN just published a fraudulent "human rights" report on Syria compiled by a woman sitting on a corporate-fascist D.C. think-tank amongst Exxon oilmen, ex-CIA, and US government representatives.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/syria-nato-genocide-approaches.html

That's just scratching the surface - for those with the intellectual courage to dig into the information and follow the links you will see just how dangerous these two "institutions" are. Prachatai - btw - is funded by the US State Department via the National Endowment for Democracy.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

The US State department, UN,

The US State department, UN, Wall Street, and London support the Thai Democrat Party, Military Monarchy alliance. They support anyone they can do business with.

I've documented Thaksin's and

I've documented Thaksin's and UDD's ties to Wall Street as well as Prachatai's millions of baht in foreign funding received by corporate fascists in the US.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

Where is your documentation? Without such evidence it is difficult to take you seriously. I have established not only that they are receiving money, but I have also illustrated their intentions, and agenda. Thaksin isn't just receiving money - he is receiving support throughout the globalist media machine and through its vast network of NGOs including Prachatai who pretends to be anti-Thaksin but supports his UDD mobs.

I've seen people cite US weapons sales and training as "proof" that the US backs the Thai military - however what about in Pakistan who receives billions of dollars from the US every year but is also concurrently at low-intensity war with them? You lack the political and intellectual sophistication to understand why the US funds and trains ALL armies around the world, even the Chinese in certain cases - it is explained best in Brookings Institution's "Which Path to Persia?" where funding and weapons sales, training, and collaboration is used to (A) get a closer look inside, and (B) co-opt members of a nation's officer corps.

Unfortunately, you people are still on an 8th grade level regarding history, maybe a 12th grade reading level, and perhaps have the tactical acumen of a 3 year old - so this is going to keep going over your heads and keep incurring your juvenile responses. However, if you are up to the challenge, read "Which Path to Persia?" and start seeing how the REAL world works.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/files/rc/papers/2009/06_iran_strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf

tony c. take the rope ang

tony c. take the rope ang hange u as we told you again and again !
you suking nazi u

Absolutely, and there is

Absolutely, and there is plenty of evidence for that in even the most basic history and politics texts dating from WW2.

Well Albert - then it should

Well Albert - then it should be no trouble for you to cite all these sources.... but then again I have a feeling you are going to obsess over the Vietnam War where the US was committing genocide throughout Indochina and Thailand bargained for the safety of its population by doing what they have always done throughout history - balance in the middle.

I'm citing THaksins ties to Wall Street and London NOW - TODAY. Not connections he had 20 years ago. Show me how the Thai establishment is compromised or carrying out the US agenda TODAY.

US is funding Prachatai....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

US is funding CURRENTLY Thaksin and UDD....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

US, Soros, etc. even funded 2 out of 3 fellowships Pravit - a frequent contributor here at Prachatai - has taken part in!!!

Reuters Fellowship... Soros' Open Society amongst others

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/fellowships/overview.html

Salzburg Fellowship... US State Dept. Exxon. Bank of America, Open Society etc....

http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2008
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2009

WHAT A FRAUD this whole Prachatai, 112, Lese Majeste campaign is!!! You hide these ties - you downplay that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU are tied to these foreign corporate fascist interests, and lie about the nature of their work....

Here is the FULL background of the National Endowment for Democracy with a little Video blurb of Noam Chomsky exposing it as an absolute monied elitist FRAUD...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html

Absolutely can provide the

Absolutely can provide the evidence. But to do exactly as you do, I will just link to a couple of pictures and a website archive:

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/2514.cfm
http://lossofgravity.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/faces-on-twitter-federico-ferrara-khikwai/
and this:
http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/
and this:
http://www.timeupthailand.net/

I know that isn't evidence in the true sense, but it is what you do, so I guess it must be good enough for you.

First that is not evidence -

First that is not evidence - I provided definitive, documented proof that Prachatai is a fraud, and that the UDD was funded by the United States government - by supplying you a link to their own letter admitting their dealings with them last April....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

Second, this is the 2nd time I've had to respond to you because Prachatai is once again censoring and deleting my comments - while it allows ad hominem off-topic comments in response. Shows how badly Prachatai is losing when real information and facts enter the debate.

Please see Noam Chomsky exposing NED - which funds Prachatai millions a year - as an absolute monied elite FRAUD.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

Albert, what you did was dishonest and intellectual slobbery. I have presented irrefutable evidence, you counter it by posting more pro-Thaksin propaganda - and not even anything specific - but rather homepages of notorious UDD supporters - some of the sites even featuring UDD members themselves.

Well, Tony, your "evidence"

Well, Tony, your "evidence" is no different to this, and your claims on linking to UDD and membership of UDD are, as is your wont, fabrications. First, like you, I provided two links to pictures of books. But they are in English, so you should be able to read them. It seems you can't read the content of most of the pictures you post as "evidence." Those books have nothing to do with the UDD. Likewise, no evidence of UDD links is available for PPT. Only Time Up Thailand is linked in any way to the UDD. Again and again you are simply lying. And it seems that only your endlessly repeated facts are considered evidence for the rest of the world. Your standards do not apply to anyone but your one-some. What a surprise! It is so nice to see you hanging yourself again and again. You are a fraud. I know that everyone who reads Prachatai knows this, but it is so sweet to see how you simply can't help yourself; it's pathological.

As for intellectual dishonesty, what I did was exactly what you do post after post, so if the cap fits, by all means, keep wearing it. Your double standards are breathtaking.

I have to admit that the terms intellectual, honesty and truth are not the the terms that I would associate with your preaching to yourself.

Political Prisoners Thailand

Political Prisoners Thailand homepage links to foreign funded Thai Netizen, UDD's Time Up Thailand and of course US corporate-fascist funded Prachatai.

Furthermore it itself features the very same US funded propaganda re-posted on Prachatai as well as frequent posts by Giles Ungpakorn, a UDD leader. Not to mention that all of the "political prisoners" they are defending happen to be UDD members - because at the end of the day that is what 112 is all about - foreign-funded Thaksin's UDD committing treason, going to jail, and a gaggle of foreign funded fake NGOs trying to defend them as "victims."

And Albert - not a single link you provided refutes the evidence that I posted .... which is the point...

US corporate fascists are funding Prachatai....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

US is funding CURRENTLY Thaksin and the UDD....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

US, Soros, etc. even funded 2 out of 3 fellowships the Nation's Pravit - a frequent contributor here at Prachatai - has taken part in...

Reuters Fellowship... Soros' Open Society amongst others

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/fellowships/overview.html

Salzburg Fellowship... US State Dept. Exxon. Bank of America, Open Society etc....

http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2008
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2009

This exposed all these "separate" elements of your movement as foreign-funded frauds taking cash and support from people who represent tyranny and oppression that dwarfs your unfounded accusations toward the Thai establishment.

"Political Prisoners Thailand

"Political Prisoners Thailand homepage links to foreign funded Thai Netizen, UDD's Time Up Thailand and of course US corporate-fascist funded Prachatai," says,Tony/TC/Greg, neglecting that PPT also links to 2Bangkok.com, the source of much of his "evidence." As I said: I do exactly as you do, and just link to a couple of pictures and a website archive. Now I'll just repeat them ad nauseum and with an increasing paranoia:

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/2514.cfm
http://lossofgravity.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/faces-on-twitter-federico-ferrara-khikwai/
and this:
http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/
and this:
http://www.timeupthailand.net/

Do yourself a favor and make yourself a serious thinker by reading the above and seeing how wrong you are on everything you seek to comment on.... PPT is the most independent and serious blog about with absolutely no funding from anyone, not Russian intelligence, not the Koch brothers, not anyone.

Albert - I said Prachatai is

Albert - I said Prachatai is funded by US corporate fascists - the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) millions of baht a year and that this is self-evidently fraud.

This is stated on Prachatai's own "About Us" page....

http://prachatai.com/english/aboutus

covered here in depth....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

And the true nature of NED can be found by simply researching their board of directors....

http://ned.org/about/board

Or reading the direct links I've provided for you to their corporate lobbying sites and the reams of documents they have signed promoting war and American hegemonic expansion across the planet...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html

All you did was post UDD propaganda - written by UDD members & supporters - written exclusively about UDD members being exiled or imprisoned for their sedition.

UDD is on record consorting with the same corporate fascists behind both Thaksin and Prachatai - they said so in a signed letter on their own website - the letter reproduced and the link to the official page can be found here. PPT supports these people and we should consider them "serious?" Really Albert? Since they don't say where their funding comes from - for all we know they are lying JUST LIKE PRACHATAI did for 4 years.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

Now you called me a "liar." How am I a liar? I said they are frauds, I linked to direct, documented evidence that they are. Your rebuttal were homepages to your favorite propagandists and not even to specific articles they wrote that might possibly refute what I said. Again - absolute deceit on your part praying to Christ that no one actually calls you on your "rebuttal" and keeps us both to task by fact checking.

Your comment is irrelevant to

Your comment is irrelevant to my point about Political Prisoners Thailand. There is no evidence that PPT has any funding from anyone. again you are shown to be a fraud, simply making stuff up, posting and reposting the same sludge.

Hmmm. This guy should be

Hmmm.

This guy should be sacked for entering the political arena rather than doing his job or trying to reduce the corruption in the police force, In this respect he is in the same sinking boat as Prayuth. Seemingly these guys think they have the right to make political statements, and presumably Yingluck agrees with them, or is too frightened of them both to raise an objection. Either way, it bodes ill for Thailands abortive struggle towards a democracy that non-Thais would recognise as such.

They have trotted out the same tired old line that morphs an insult to the old men on the hill into a national security breach. This is so that people outside Thailand will be able to nod and say “oh yes, national security, well, that’s important of course” instead of saying that it is in fact just an offence against the national Thai talisman - well. totem would be a better word in this instance. Because as everyone knows, everyone who is not a Thai is a bit feeble-minded, and nobody really understands 'Thai-ness'. What nonsense, but it serves the Thai national self-esteem to say these things.

[...]

/cont’d

/cont’d [...] If it was ever

/cont’d

[...] If it was ever true it is not true now, hence the panic by those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Its certainly true that many Thais have fall into line with the propaganda, either through just being dim, or through needing a comfort blanket to face the world, or through having a financial incentive to do so, but many have decided to live in the real world and see what their heroes are really worth. This is why Abhisit, who still thinks he is in a position of power in Thailand has just instructed Yingluck to dismantle the red shirts.

The disrepute that [...] has fallen into, has been brought about by its own actions and through the actions of its whining and obsequious followers. This disrepute is becoming more and more visible to all, internally and externally.

So they naturally panic because they’ve been found out. Finally. And they're trying desperately to get the genie back in the bottle.

In Royalist racist Vasit at

In Royalist racist Vasit at it again PPT has some background on Vasit, whom "no one elected... to a position where he is entitled to speak for any Thai people".

In their adroit and enlightening essay the PPT team quote from Cold War Thailand through the Eyes and Imagination of a Leading Thai Cold Warrior by Dr Michael Montesano...

Briefer of CIA director Allen Dulles during the latter's late-1950s visit to Thailand, veteran of anti-Soviet espionage in Bangkok, long the Thai Special Branch's leading trainer in anti-Communist operations, and palace insider at the time of his country's most intensive counter-insurgency efforts, Police General Vasit Dejkunjorn ranked among Thailand's most important Cold Warriors...

His writings offer a unique, Thai perspective on the Cold War. They vividly illustrate - and, indeed, long informed - Thai views of such features of the era as "alien" subversion, Thai-US co-operation in battling Communist, insurgency and counter-insurgency in the Thai Northeast, social and economic aspects of Communism's domestic appeal in Thailand, and the Thai state's varied efforts to fight a successful Cold War...

"Alien" subversion... yes, the Police General's imagination is on display front and center here again, apparently.

It would be interesting to

It would be interesting to read the whole article... but it's locked behind a firewall at the National University of Singapore.

Don't academic firewalls... where the information is kept from leaving, rather than national firewalls like Thailand's where the information is kept from entering... contribute every bit as much to keeping people uninformed as do the fascist institutions such as the MICT?

Thanks for pointing to this

Thanks for pointing to this PPT article. It is most enlightening.

Khun Vasit is the author of

Khun Vasit is the author of "In His Majesty's Footsteps" and frequently praises HM the King in the most excessive language possible.

I would suggest that he seeks a return to the Absolute Monarchy, as described by Pavin recently (http://hir.harvard.edu/thailand-the-die-hard-absolute-monarchy). The anti-democratic nature of these hyper-royalists is clear and unambiguous.

I believe that Tony Cartalucci must be a disciple of Lyndon Larouche. Very quaint! It reminds me of my own bomb-throwing youth.

Thanks for the link. All of

Thanks for the link. All of Pavin's relatively short article is available 'in the clear', hindered by neither academic nor national firewalls.

Hi Cliff/FGA/guy Prachatai

Hi Cliff/FGA/guy Prachatai pays to manage comments. Nice to see you coming to the same conclusion as other people with different names that I am a follower of "Lyndon Larouche" when he is fairly obscure, and not a single link or story on my site leads off to him or his work. What a coincidence - one of many on US State Department funded Prachatai.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

I also enjoy how you attack me with wide generalizations but never narrow in on just what I am wrong about. You do this on purpose because EVERYTHING I write about is fully documented and any specific charge you make easily dismissed with facts. I'll challenge you to point out something specific but I suspect I'll get more juvenile retorts dressed up as sophisticated gibes.

You know what is strange through - that you seem to think it is ok to have Prachatai funded by Soros and the US State Department, Thai Netizen Network, a partner of Prachatai to be funded by a German Organization partnered with Soros, and Pravit - a frequent contributor to Prachatai who has been given 3 fellowships - 2 of which are directly funded by Soros and the US Carnegie Corporation, one the US State Department, Exxon, Bank of America, and the Ford Foundation - and not believe any conflict of interest exists or that somehow their independence as honest journalists hasn't been completely eviscerated.

This website, the people contributing to it, and those defending it are frauds at worst, unfortunate victims of global corporate fascism at best. The fact that you all use the same tactics, and at times verbatim repeat the same arguments and accusations despite alleging to be "different" people reflects on your lack of integrity and honesty. Try, "Cliff" to actually debate on the issues on hand and not who you "think" I am a disciple of. Just because you can't imagine thinking for yourself, doesn't mean everyone else is a follower as well.

Tony, you are so tedious, so

Tony, you are so tedious, so repetitious, so boring. You drone on and on so endlessly. Do you have a little apps program that you hook up to various comment sections that pumps out the same verbiage over and over and over? Perhaps, you should spend some time developing a more satisfying and complex social life or relationship. It might help you arrive at a more satisfying place in this world. And free the rest of us to carry on dialogues without your constant and very predictable interruptions.

ad hominem and truly pathetic

ad hominem and truly pathetic - get real. I deal with real facts, documented evidence - YOU are the one DRONING on and on making absolutely no factual points or even dealing with the subject matter of the article above, which is Vasit calling out the US and UN as enemies - which they most certainly are.

Let me illustrate - have the intellectual fortitude to check the facts and have an intelligent debate afterwards...

Here's the US and UN harboring, defending, and trying to delist, rearm, and send off an Iraqi based terrorist organization which has killed civilians in Iraq, Iran, and even Americans....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/exposed-us-troops-guarded-terrorist.html

Here is the US State Department announcing they are assembling a corporate-funded think-tank lined "advisory board" full of oil companies, defense contractors, and run by corporate lobbyists...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/clinton-turns-to-naked-corporate.html

And finally the UN writing a fraudulent "human rights" report compiled by a woman who sits on a D.C. corporate-funded think tank along side Exxon men and the US-Qatar Business Council president...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/syria-nato-genocide-approaches.html

So yeah - not only is the US and UN a threat to Thailand - they are a threat to all of free humanity - the evidence looms over you like a mountain and yet you are still sucking your thumb. What will you do next? Prove how utterly stunted you are intellectually with another off-topic witless retort? Or face these facts along with the fact that these VERY SAME PEOPLE are funding Prachatai?

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

TOT can't seem to honor its

TOT can't seem to honor its promise to restore my internet, so I am confined to call phone link - until the likes of Vasit et. Al figure a way to disrupt that as well.

Vasit and ilk are on a drunken bandwagon, incensed against ideas that do not agree with their own and intoxicated with the long-dead drumbeat of Animal Farm antics. His constant "they don't understand" is merely the Thai way of saying "They don't agree," and that is, to Thais, mistakenly one and the same. When you put people in prison for speaking and offer absolutely zero evidence in the prosecution process other than a statement that national security is affected, when your national infrastructure entotal allows this constant miscarriage of justice, you do not have any grounds, whatsoever, to criticize the US or UN or others who are not harming anything other than astoundingly selfish egos and fanciful sycophants.
All of his kind, and supporters and anonymous online bloggers who refuse to come clean about their own funding and identity, really need to get out of the human repression business and stop admiring themselves in mirrors of ignorance and hatred, to stop finding solace in growing numbers of mischievous "authorities" who enforce various indefensible-except by force and coercion-imaginings.

Here's a link to

Here's a link to PPT.

http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/12/23/lese-majeste-a-drag-on-tourism/

The way to hurt the monarchists and lese-majeste apologists is to hit them where it really hurts. The hip-pocket nerve.

I wonder if Thida and Weng have got the balls, because the soft approaches (politics/diplomacy/appeasement) are doomed to ignominious failure as they have always been in the past. The Reds cannot play the monarchist's game and hope to win, they've got way too much practice and too many bought people in too many places.

Over the past few months we've seen the monarchists shift the battleground to their own turf. Abhisit and the rest have not been idle since they were demolished at the pools, its been interesting to watch. The Reds have got to re-define the battle and the battle-ground to have any chance of winning the game the've lost for 60-odd years.

Lets see if the Thais are bright enough and courageous enough to make the hard choices. Personally I doubt it given the facts and the history, but maybe the turkey can change its feathers.

The hip-pocket in the tourism

The hip-pocket in the tourism case belongs to Thais, not to the monarchist elite.

The monarchists don't care if tourism dries up and disappears, they get their money raping the Thai environment and exploiting the Thai people and will sacrifice tourism to protect, according to their deluded game plan, those two venues.

Remember the PAD shutting down international access to Thailand and stranding every tourist in the country? The monarchists didn't bat an eyelash. They just do not care about anyone or anything but themselves and their privileged life style. They're the 1% and the 1% carries on in the same fashion world-wide.

But UDD & Thaksin's two

But UDD & Thaksin's two months of murder and mayhem topped off with city wide arson was good for tourism? Lol!

You don't even "bat an eyelash" at what an immense, raving hypocrite you are! In France, the airports are closed almost yearly by unions - in Thailand, unions also helped shut down the airports. While you make this as some sort of immense slight against humanity, you gloss over the fact that UDD fielded militants in 2010 and were maiming and murdering soldiers, police, bystanders, journalists, and even their own protesters along with calling for horrific acts of violence and destruction within the city (derailing the BTS, constant calls to loot and burn to the ground parts of Bangkok) before trying and in many cases successfully carrying them out!

Let's not forget that while PAD occupied locations around government buildings - the UDD routinely disrupts central areas in Bangkok - areas 10's of thousands of people attempt to make a living and are displaced when the bread and circus brigades take over for the day(s).

And on top of that you believe somehow Thaksin and the UDD aren't going to likewise rape and plunder the country once they eliminate their opposition? Really? - sort of like their buddy Hun Sen has already done in Cambodia - 50%+ of the country already sold out from under the people to foreign speculators? All under the mantra of "people's power" no less.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/26/cambodia

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2010/09/hun-sen-globalist-model-pet.html

You see - despite all the "people power" talk - these people fully plan to consolidate and loot the nation's wealth and use the people's vast ignorance as an engine to do so. A historical fact - or perhaps you can name one country that has operated on the Pol Pot, Mao, Hun Sen, Thaksin model and not ended in utter tragedy for ALL involved - except of course the foreign banking corporate-fascists able to buy up entire nations for pennies on the dollar.

Tony conveniently overlooks

Tony conveniently overlooks that the PAD was trying to bring down an ELECTED government, and they actively encouraged a military coup, whereas the UDD was formed in response to a military coup (followed by a judicial coup & a government formed in the military barracks).

btw, lets also not forget the main protest call by UDD was FOR an election, and the main aim of PAD was to find ways to negate the electorate (= the Thai people).

Thaksin since before becoming

Thaksin since before becoming Prime Minster of Thailand has worked for foreign corporate-financier interests. He was an adviser for the Bush/Baker/Bin Laden/Carlucci Carlyle Group and remained so EVEN AFTER becoming PM.

In 2004 he attempted to ramrod through a US-Thai FTA (without Parliamentary approval) that would have literally opened up Thailand for neo-colonial economic conquest by Western banks and mega-industry. They would have gutted Thailand's economic sovereignty.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/02/flash-back-thailands-thaksin-and-us-fta.html

Thaksin also pursued an illegal, atrocious "war on drugs" in which 2,500+ were mass murdered in the streets over the course of 2-3 months without trial or even charges, and many of the victims ending up having absolutely nothing to do with the drug trade. This crime against humanity is STILL lauded by Thaksin and his supporters - and for this crime alone he should have been deposed from power by the military who has the obligation to stop tyrannical megalomania no matter HOW MANY people are fooled into thinking it is acceptable (other examples of people being fooled into thinking atrocities are acceptable see, Bush's 2 terms in office, Nazi Germany, Stalin etc.)

Since being ousted, we see the true measure of his foreign support, with some of the largest lobbying groups on earth standing behind him including Amsterdam & Peroff, Baker Botts (Carlyle), Barbour Griffith & Rogers (Blackwill - a Iraq War scoundrel), Kobre & Kim, and Edelman. Edelman's campaign was led by Kenneth Adelman of Freedom House - a NED subsidiary - NED who funds Prachatai btw.

So I don't care really that Thaksin was "elected." The people electing him would continue to do so even if he exceeded his term limits, if he violated the rule of law in every way possible, and irregardless of how badly he betrayed his country and exploited his own supporters, because the people "voting for him" have no clue what they are doing. It is not politics or democracy, it is a dangerous, irrational PERSONALITY CULT.

and the worst part is Hobbs -

and the worst part is Hobbs - the people voting for Thaksin have no clue he is funded, backed, and working for foreign corporate-financier interests. When seeing his lobbying papers found here....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html

for Amsterdam & Peroff, Baker Botts, Barbour Griffith & Rogers, Edelman, and Kobre & Kim, they think they are fabrications despite coming directly from the US Senate's official archives. People this ignorant given the power to "decide" the fate of Thailand, will ALWAYS be exploited, abused, and thus made to make a mockery out of the democratic process. They literally will vote in a man that will enslave them and sellout the country from beneath their own feet.

I blame BOTH sides for this. These people are ignorant and uneducated, not only because of Thaksin's willful, active exploitation and manipulation, but also because of decades of neglect by Thailand's various ruling cliques who failed to ensure these people had both an understanding of history, society, and government, as well as technical skills to provide for themselves what Thaksin has bought them off with through socialist/political machine handouts.

Do a little research about Tammany Hall and realize that just because people "vote" doesn't mean someone has a mandate or the legitimacy to lead. In fact, you do more to damage a real, legitimate electorate process by defending Thaksin and his cult of personality than by pointing out PAD and the military's reaction to it. Grow up Hobbs, stop sucking your thumb, and if you really care about these people work as feverishly to prevent their exploitation at the hands of Thaksin/UDD and his political machine, as you do against the neglect they have suffered at the hands of Thaksin's opponents. These people have been robbed of their human dignity first through neglect, and now through active exploitation. NEITHER IS ACCEPTABLE!

"Neither is

"Neither is acceptable"

Agreement at last!

However, the reality is at the moment we are forced to choose, and in that context, why would you choose the side that is not prepared to submit itself to the electorate?
(after all, like you said the royalist establishment have been in power for most of the last century, so its not like they have not had any opportunity to inform & educate the electorate - its because they failed so miserably that makes Thaksin look like a star to some, and the best available alternative to the many)

The electorate made Thaksin, which means, one day, they can also break him.

Neither is acceptable - and

Neither is acceptable - and no we must not "choose" between them. Freedom - if you are "following someone" you are doing something TRAGICALLY WRONG!

First - the electorate didn't make Thaksin - he made the electorate. It is a political machine by every definition of the word. So no, it won't be "breaking him" anytime soon either. And you act as if an ignorant electorate is a unique result of Thailand's ruling class. See Bush 2000-2004, Bush 2004-2008. Indeed, ignorance plagues representative governance all across the planet - the solution isn't picking between bad and worse - the solution is to not depend on EITHER.

Indeed, people possess the capacity to solve their problems pragmatically, on their own, and on the local level. This isn't 1911, it is 2011. We have the technology to make local pragmatism effective. We have the technology to exponentially improve education anywhere someone with a syllabus and an Internet connection can reach - NO GOVERNMENT REQUIRED. I am not an anarchist and don't advocate ZERO government, but a minimalist government would be ideal - as minimal as possible as soon as possible.

Stop wasting these people's time by dragging them to rallies, poisoning them with round the clock propaganda, filling them with false hope for singing tomorrows built on "democratic values" that have NEVER existed. Instead give these people the skills they need to physically shape the world around them with science, engineering, design, and technology and let them use their time, energy, and resources to solve their own problems.

Obviously if you follow this to its logical conclusion ALLLLLLL elitist interests, international and national, will have their power diminished significantly - no matter who it is you've got a beef with. So unless you work for one of these disingenuous exploiters - there is really nothing about this concept you should disagree with.

So why support draconian LM

So why support draconian LM laws?
(or do you prefer round the clock propaganda, filling them with false hope for singing tomorrows built on NON democratic values?)

btw, I (and the Thai electorate) might pay more attention to you if you concentrated on this theme instead of the relentless repetitive mantra that Prachatai is funded by....... and Thaksin is a ..........

Again Hobby - I am for

Again Hobby - I am for self-sufficiency, self-reliance, and the resulting self-determination that will come of people solving their problems with improved education, localism, pragmatism, and utilizing technology and innovation for the maximum benefit of the individual, family, community, province and thus collectively for the nation-state with a minimal national government. Real grassroots pragmatism, not cultism dressed up as politics.

I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thaksin, his red shirt UDD, and even PRACHATAI are all on record funded, supported by, and in the service of foreign corporate-fascist interests. This is undeniable.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html

Prachatai's funding can be found on their VERY OWN "about us" page. I have provided links to the NED BoD that funds them and have given you links to their biographies and even signed documents that prove they are NOT progressive, but rather notorious Neo-Conservative warmongers!!! These same people are on record utilizing their corporate lobbying firms to back Thaksin since 2006 - they had him as an adviser to their ponzi equity firm Carlyle before he even became PM and while PM attempted to ram through a US-Thai FTA that would have gutted Thai economic sovereignty!

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

So these people are absolute, lying, degenerate frauds working in tandem, from Thaksin all the way down to Prachatai. They must be held accountable. I suggest treason and sedition are more appropriate, and if we can agree on this point that they should be charged as so - I will openly denounce LM in favor of harsher measures. In fact - I have already said that the leaders/directors of these political movements/NGOs should be targeted instead of people like Ang Koh.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html

Hobbs - the bigger picture

Hobbs - the bigger picture and because I am an American and know this first hand - corporate fascism of which Thaksin all the way down to Prachatai are servants of - prevents people from being truly self-sufficient. In America you can get arrested for growing, selling and making your own food as people do here in Thailand everyday. So pointing out Thaksin as another dangerous, non-viable solution is essential to getting people to DUMP BOTH SIDES and focus on this theme of self-sufficiency, self-reliance, and utilizing technological innovations to put the power in their hands - not "elected representatives" who are frauds on BOTH sides.

Thaksin's return to power, and the Pol-Pot-esque nature the UDD is taking on is going to be used to usher in foreign corporatocracy (much like we see now in Hun Sen's Cambodia) where people will not even have their own land to sit on let alone the ability to become self-sufficient.

Prachatai IS FUNDED by US corporate fascists - FACT! They take the money they don't denounce these warmongering lunatics. Thaksin likewise is funded and backed by the very same people. It is a dangerous fraud! How can you know this and not shout it from a mountaintop especially when so many people still don't know about it? Has Prachatai announced their foreign funding on their Thai page - last time I checked THEY DIDN'T so more than half their audience they are STILL LYING TO!

Is it not true that they take money from fraudulent self-serving Neo-Con corporate fascists? The evidence is on their own "About Us" page and you can research the NED BoD yourself! By ignoring this you more than myself are destroying the credibility of your cause. By arguing with me, who has been telling the truth this whole time, and not holding Prachatai accountable for their deceit and criminal source of funding reflects poorly on your cause, not mine.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

You admit there are two evils

You admit there are two evils - why would you only want one side to be punished?
Or haven't you noticed that on the one hand tyrants get rewarded, even appointed to high institutions, and on the other hand those that dare to seek/speak the truth are locked up for decades? (even the devil incarnate has been forced into exile & had billions stripped from him)

(PS. If you choose to respond, please try not to further prove my point about you being relentless & repetitive:)

"dare to speak the truth" -

"dare to speak the truth" - US State Department talking points are not the "truth" and I've illustrated this in spades.

Thaksin is a mere proxy, his billions are a drop in the bucket compared to the Wall Street corporate-financiers that back him.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

Finally, there is an absolute evil - the corporate fascist agenda driving Thaksin, the UDD and even Prachatai, verses one system of status quo, that while not ideal, can be worked within pragmatically toward a better future. You seriously cannot delineate between the two? You still, thus far, have failed utterly to acknowledge the implications of Prachatai as being funded by the absolute scum of humanity - and insist that somehow Thailand's establishment is an "evil" on par with Wall Street corporate fascism that has cost 10s of millions of lives over the last 5 decades.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

It is hard to take you seriously when you compare the people behind the Iraq, Afghan, Libyan, even Vietnam War with the Thai establishment, that while corrupt and self-serving, cannot even begin to be compared to Wall Street and London.

At least the US State

At least the US State Department modulates a tune occasionally, even if we can agree that they are generally hopeless. There is nothing in this comment by Tony that he hasn't posted umpteen times before. Boring. Yawn.

The US State Department,

The US State Department, aside from funding a global army of fake NGOs worldwide to serve their corporate fascist agenda, (including Prachatai http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html ) they are now openly advised by corporate-funded think-tanks...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/clinton-turns-to-naked-corporate.html

America literally is the 4th Reich run by corporate fascism, executing a global campaign of economic and military domination and anything that produces the "occasional tune" is simply intelligence insulting propaganda.

Defending them and the shills that eagerly fund themselves and their fraudulent work (Prachatai, UDD) derides any values or agendas you pretend to peddle Albert. These are facts - irrefutable.

Again - read this and tell me what leg the US State Department stands on and why, unless we worship bankers and big-oil we should believe or follow ANYTHING they say.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/clinton-turns-to-naked-corporate.html

You are such frauds here at Prachatai - you can't even begin to defend your propaganda the moment someone informed and bringing facts to the table begins to debate.

Vasit is a fraud of the worst

Vasit is a fraud of the worst kind who only has voice because of his connections. Sensible people find him hopeless.

If everyone at Prachatai is a fraud, wouldn't an intelligent person spend their time somewhere else instead of engaging in mad, repetitious rants that ignore all substance? It seems plain dumb to engage in constant re-posting of your stuff if you think you are dealing with no one but frauds.

And by being madly repetitious, Tony, you are supporting racist rants by the royalist Vasit. I dare say that makes you strange bedfellows, but you seem to enjoy supporting the basest of individuals and the most fascist amongst Thailand's elite. Even my more intelligent yellow shirt colleagues find Vasit a rather embarrassing, as he is again in this story.

Whatever else Vasit has ever

Whatever else Vasit has ever said or done - he is absolutely right about the UN and US being an enemy of Thailand - and not just Thailand, but all of free humanity.

The US State Department, which funds Prachatai millions per year via the National Endowment for Democracy, is on record advised by an official body made up of corporate-funded think tanks and corporate lobbyist fronts....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/clinton-turns-to-naked-corporate.html

The UN has an enormous list of transgressions it has made against humanity, far too long to go into great depth here, but we can just cite the latest stunt pulled by this disingenuous, fraudulent "institution." Of course their "Human Rights" report regarding Syria, consisting of alleged "witness accounts" recorded in Geneva and compiled by the director of a US corporate-funded D.C. think-tank!

I'm talking about Karen Koning AbuZayd, a director of the US Washington-based corporate think-tank, Middle East Policy Council, that includes Exxon men, CIA agents, US military and government representatives, and even the president of the US-Qatar Business Council, which includes amongst its membership, AlJazeera, Chevron, Exxon, munitions manufacturer Raytheon (who supplied the opening salvos during NATO's operations against Libya), and Boeing.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/un-report-on-syria-based-on-witness.html

So yeah - the US and UN are hiding an imperialist, corporate-fascist agenda behind a very tenuous illusion of "concern" for human rights, democracy, and "freedom."

Albert - when you get done sucking your thumb and whining - read the above links - I challenge you to discredit them with actual evidence and not "Albert says so" conclusions. And when you realize how dark and sinister - what utter corporate-serving human trash the US State Department and UN are - Prachatai's sycophantic praising of these frauds only accentuates what frauds they themselves are.

No doubt there are many who

No doubt there are many who would argue that Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were right on some things. Even a raving looney can occasionally say something sensible. Supporting Vasit on anything is akin to rejecting the UN on everything. It is an intellectually dishonest bit of cherry-picking. I thought you detested that? Apparently not when you do it. You can't even get internally consistent. Hopeless. Meanwhile royalist leeches cheer Vasit as a hero, as you do.

Sometimes you just fall over

Sometimes you just fall over Thais falling over themselves to dispel any notion that they're of normal intelligence...

This from the Bangkok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/272224/yutthasak-don-t-mess-with-lese-majeste

As a part of this gem - this:

"Earlier this week, the secretary general of the King's Chaipattana Foundation, Sumet Tantivejkul, said the lese majesty law would not cause any trouble for anyone who did not violate it."

Presumably then the best way to avoid consequences of the law against murder is not to murder anyone. Remarkable really. And the best way to avoid being murdered by the 'Royal' Thai army is not to wear a red shirt.

Pity the Thai elites take no notice of the laws agains corruption, deprival of human rights, invading other countries etc etc.

The Thai intelligentsia at work again. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Thailand is constantly

Thailand is constantly reaching across borders and charging, arresting, trying and jailing people for what they did in other countries. By what right do they claim other countries therefore have no say about what goes on?

In fact by jailing people for LM for what they did abroad Thailand is refusing to accept differences of POV anywhere in the world.

Beside that, these creeps who think they have the right to imprison people for thought and speech are beyond comprehension. They should be imprisoned themselves for their enslavement of a nation.

Perhaps "Tony" can find time

Perhaps "Tony" can find time to recall the old saying, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Absolute power is known by those who create it as a hideous monster but they attempt to shield themselves from its immediate affects, much like drug addicts, by transposing need for such power from their own selfish interests to those of the people who have always been prey to such machinations. It matters little what the cause celebre dejure is...what matters is how compliant the people are or how compliant they need to be made. A global game, to be sure, but it is one that must have the name of the game placed clearly on the box rather than hiding it behind a curtain of sacrament.

Thailand's proverbial slip is showing.

Again you want to talk about

Again you want to talk about corruption??? Your entire cause is funded by the absolute worst scum humanity has produced .... Ever! Wall Street and London corporate fascists fund and propel every micron of your agenda - on record. You, rather than admitting this truth, go on these pedantic, long-winded retorts that barely form a single cogent thought.

US is funding Prachatai....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

US is funding CURRENTLY Thaksin and UDD....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

US, Soros, etc. even funded 2 out of 3 fellowships Pravit - a frequent contributor here at Prachatai - has taken part in!!!

Reuters Fellowship... Soros' Open Society amongst others

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/fellowships/overview.html

Salzburg Fellowship... US State Dept. Exxon. Bank of America, Open Society etc....

http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2008
http://www.salzburgglobal.org/current/support.cfm?nav=supporters&year=2009

Prachatai, ThaiNetizenNetwork, the UDD, and all of the intellectual debris (including you) dragged in their orbits are an absolute verified FRAUD.

Here is the FULL background of the National Endowment for Democracy with a little Video blurb of Noam Chomsky exposing it as an absolute monied elitist FRAUD...

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html

Tom Hoy has already shown

Tom Hoy has already shown that Chomsky has supported reform of lese majeste by being a signatory with 112 international academics who oppose the horrid law. As a truly remarkable thinker, Chomsky has seen that lese majeste is a major problem for Thailand.

Lese majeste is the tool of a royalist elite that has exploited and repressed ordinary Thais for decades. Opposing that repression is truly progressive.

Chomsky is a "remarkable

Chomsky is a "remarkable thinker" because at one time he used to back up his convictions with research and documentation - the same research and documentation that exposed Prachatai's sponsor, the US National Endowment for Democracy which funds them millions a year - an absolute monied elitist fraud.

Now Chomsky, for whatever reason has jumped on the political bandwagon and has supported NED's agenda around the globe - including recently British attempts to recolonize Zimbabwe - also under NED-manipulation - he has not provided the same documentation or evidence to support this sudden change - he simply just started carrying water for this agenda. Show me where Chomsky has justified academically his latest flip-flop verses the immensely documented conclusion he made about NED in 1993, feature here....

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

....instead of just citing he academic credentials alone.

You can't - so again you prop up your agenda with empty rhetoric that depends solely on superficial "evidence." Appeal to authority in particular: Chomsky is a respected intellect, he supports 112 reform, therefore 112 reform is a noble cause. SORRY ALBERT! That is a logical fallacy - show us how he came to that conclusion. Again, you are such an utter fraud you can't even begin to defend your agenda with facts and figures and depend entirely on appeals to authority, emotion, and anything else besides reason, logic, and fact.

He certainly isn't a

He certainly isn't a fraudulent thinker like you. He analyzes material and draws conclusions from the facts. Never seen him rant like a madman and pick and choose a tidbit here and a word here and there that is constructed to make an endlessly repeated and paranoid diatribe.

But you have seen Chomsky

But you have seen Chomsky deride the US National Endowment for Democracy as an absolute, monied elitist fraud and their work through disingenuous NGOs like Prachatai part of a global scam?

Has he presented evidence contradicting his bold statements given in the video accompanying this article???

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html

In fact - I asked you, or anyone to prove that Chomsky's remarkable talents have been used to document and justify his latest flip-flopping. He is indeed famous for "analyzing material and drawing conclusions from the facts" but recently he is just jumping on political bandwagons and providing neither analysis nor conclusions drawn from facts. Instead - and quite predictably, you just rant against me personally, cite ZERO facts, and lazily suggest somehow that proves me wrong, and you right.

I will not disparage Chomsky or guess as to why he has flip-flopped - because he has done so much to wake people up over the years. However I will disagree with him when he is not applying his trademark logic and research to political agendas he is now promoting, that stand in fact, directly contradictory to his previously well-founded research.

Obviously, Chomsky is

Obviously, Chomsky is coherent, principled and correct. It is a fine example. His opposition to lese majeste is, like all of his excellent work, very obviously based on an analysis of power relations. Any analyst worth a cracker has seen that lese majeste is a gross form of elite repression.